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RF module frequency

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When setting the frequency in the RF module electromagnetics model (frequency domain) what is this frequency being applied to? I know this can be set either in the solver or the physics node in the model tree. I have a background field that I am trying to model on a cube with periodic boundary conditions, and therefore no applied field boundary conditions that would excite the model. It does not appear as though its able to solve a model in the frequency domain without applied boundary excitation. Does the specified frequency not get applied to the background field?


5 Replies Last Post Oct 2, 2020, 1:10 p.m. EDT
Robert Koslover Certified Consultant

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Posted: 4 years ago Sep 28, 2020, 11:05 a.m. EDT
Updated: 4 years ago Sep 28, 2020, 11:06 a.m. EDT

The specified frequency does indeed get applied to the background field. Now, if you don't apply any fields on the boundaries (but only periodic conditions) then you had better apply a field (or some other sort of excitation, port, etc.) elsewhere, or your field will be zero everywhere. You can also specify a background field, if you choose the scattered-wave formulation. Regardless, if you are having a frustrating problem with a particular model in which something unexpected appears to be happening to the frequency, I suggest you post it to the forum so that others can take a closer look at it to help you find out what is going wrong.

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Scientific Applications & Research Associates (SARA) Inc.
www.comsol.com/partners-consultants/certified-consultants/sara
The specified frequency does indeed get applied to the background field. Now, if you don't apply any fields on the boundaries (but only periodic conditions) then you had better apply a field (or some other sort of excitation, port, etc.) elsewhere, or your field will be zero everywhere. You can also specify a background field, if you choose the scattered-wave formulation. Regardless, if you are having a frustrating problem with a particular model in which something unexpected appears to be happening to the frequency, I suggest you post it to the forum so that others can take a closer look at it to help you find out what is going wrong.

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Posted: 4 years ago Sep 29, 2020, 11:47 p.m. EDT

Thank you for the response. I have attached my model below. I have a background field applied with all periodic boundary conditions, but it fails to converge. It's solved without the frequency applied, which is why i asked the question.

Thank you for the response. I have attached my model below. I have a background field applied with all periodic boundary conditions, but it fails to converge. It's solved without the frequency applied, which is why i asked the question.


Robert Koslover Certified Consultant

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Posted: 4 years ago Sep 30, 2020, 11:09 a.m. EDT
Updated: 4 years ago Sep 30, 2020, 11:11 a.m. EDT

In the Model Builder, go to Electromagnetic Waves, Frequency Domain..." then look in the Settings, and Find "Analysis Methodolology." Expand that (down arrow) and replace your setting under "Methodology options:" (which you have as "Fast") with "Robust" instead. Your model will then execute to completion. {Note: I did this with version 5.5. I don't know if it will do the same in 5.4 (but it probably will).} There are other potential issues with your model, since your unit-cell scale is very, very small compared to the wavelength (which, I suspect, contributed to the failed execution). Physics-wise, I wouldn't be confident that the assumed properties of "soft iron" (with a mu_r = 1200 in your model) are valid at a frequency of 1 GHz (which is the frequency you currently have specified, under "Step 1: Frequency Domain"), but that is something for you to decide if you believe or not. At least the model executes, now. But I suspect that you have more work ahead of you to make this representative of something in the real world. Good luck.

-------------------
Scientific Applications & Research Associates (SARA) Inc.
www.comsol.com/partners-consultants/certified-consultants/sara
In the Model Builder, go to Electromagnetic Waves, Frequency Domain..." then look in the Settings, and Find "Analysis Methodolology." Expand that (down arrow) and replace your setting under "Methodology options:" (which you have as "Fast") with "Robust" instead. Your model will then execute to completion. {Note: I did this with version 5.5. I don't know if it will do the same in 5.4 (but it probably will).} There are other potential issues with your model, since your unit-cell scale is very, very small compared to the wavelength (which, I suspect, contributed to the failed execution). Physics-wise, I wouldn't be confident that the assumed properties of "soft iron" (with a mu_r = 1200 in your model) are valid at a frequency of 1 GHz (which is the frequency you currently have specified, under "Step 1: Frequency Domain"), but that is something for you to decide if you believe or not. At least the model executes, now. But I suspect that you have more work ahead of you to make this representative of something in the real world. Good luck.

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Posted: 4 years ago Oct 1, 2020, 2:31 p.m. EDT

Thank you! This did solve. Would you be able to explain the difference of the two options to me?

As for the material values and frequencies, those are things I willa djust, the 1GHz was a comsol default. I have experimental data I will use to tune my model to more meaningful results. The Iron is also a placeholder for which I am adjusting the values. That permeability was actually taken from the included B-H curve in comsol.

Thank you! This did solve. Would you be able to explain the difference of the two options to me? As for the material values and frequencies, those are things I willa djust, the 1GHz was a comsol default. I have experimental data I will use to tune my model to more meaningful results. The Iron is also a placeholder for which I am adjusting the values. That permeability was actually taken from the included B-H curve in comsol.

Robert Koslover Certified Consultant

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Posted: 4 years ago Oct 2, 2020, 1:10 p.m. EDT

Glad to hear it is working for you. In regard to why "robust" converges and "fast" didn't, I don't know! But the robust one is evidently more robust in terms of convergence, based on your own example. :-) Now, in regard to your use of placeholder material properties, or leaving the frequency at its default of 1GHz if/when you know that you are actually interested in something possibly much different, may I offer a suggestion/word of caution: Bear in mind that the convergence (or not) of a Comsol Multiphysics model may depend on such parameters! So it is a good idea to set those (and other) parameters appropriately (even if only roughly), before concluding that your model won't work in cases of actual interest.

-------------------
Scientific Applications & Research Associates (SARA) Inc.
www.comsol.com/partners-consultants/certified-consultants/sara
Glad to hear it is working for you. In regard to why "robust" converges and "fast" didn't, I don't know! But the *robust* one is evidently *more robust* in terms of convergence, based on your own example. :-) Now, in regard to your use of placeholder material properties, or leaving the frequency at its default of 1GHz if/when you know that you are actually interested in something possibly much different, may I offer a suggestion/word of caution: Bear in mind that the convergence (or not) of a Comsol Multiphysics model may *depend* on such parameters! So it is a good idea to set those (and other) parameters appropriately (even if only roughly), before concluding that your model won't work in cases of actual interest.

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